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Dropshippers: Are Exemption Certificates Required For Every State?

author photo of Michael J. Fleming

As many have observed, there has been a paradigm shift in the way that states approach exemption certificates. Historically, many states and auditors may have given companies wide latitude in sales tax audits for situations where it was plainly obvious that a particular sale was for resale. However, over the last seven or eight years, we have seen a shift away from “substance over form” to “form over substance.” More and more state auditors seem to view exempt sales as low hanging fruit, or, in other words, easy revenue.

As a result, distributors and manufacturers (let’s call them the “Suppliers” from now on) who may not have been selected for audit previously, or those whose audits did not reveal issues with their certificates, are now finding out the hard way that they have problems when it comes to certificates. A lot of certificate problems relate to drop shipping and right after these Suppliers get hit with an audit and pay a state a big sum of money, they usually set out to correct the problem. This generally includes the Supplier contacting all of their wholesale customers (let’s call the Suppliers’ wholesale customers “Resellers”) inform them that they (the Resellers) will now have to provide a certificate for every state based on the “ship-to” address of the Reseller's customer (let’s call these the “Customers”). The Suppliers usually tell their Resellers that if a certificate cannot be provided, sales tax will be charged from now on.

The response from the Reseller can range from mild concern to anger to outright panic, as they try to grasp how this will impact their business. This is when we usually get the question from the Reseller about how this all works. It just doesn’t seem reasonable or even possible that a Reseller would be required to produce certificates for every state where they have customers. Suppliers often have the same concerns.

In the following paragraphs we will answer this question as well as why the Suppliers are asking for certificates in all “ship-to” states even if the Reseller does not have nexus in that state.

Why is the Supplier asking for a certificate in the “ship-to” state if the Reseller doesn’t have nexus in that state?

This is a frequently-asked question. Resellers (and Suppliers) are perplexed as to how a sale for resale can even be taxable. And they are correct -- sales for resale are generally not taxable, but the proper documents to support the exemption must be obtained and maintained by the Supplier. In addition, since the Reseller usually does not have nexus in the “ship-to” state, the Reseller is generally not registered in that state and therefore does not have the ability to collect tax from their customer. So the tax would have to come out of the Reseller’s pocket, which is a big hit to the profit margin.

Well, the answer to this question is really fairly simple once we peel away the confusion that drop shipping often creates. A drop shipment, or as it is sometimes called, a “third-party” sale, occurs when a Reseller of tangible personal property (TPP), requests its Supplier to ship the product directly to the Reseller’s Customer. There are really two separate transactions and three parties. The first transaction is when the Customer orders a product from the Reseller. If the Reseller does not carry the item ordered in current inventory, the Reseller places its own order for the same good with the Supplier and then directs the Supplier to drop ship it directly to the Customer. If we concentrate just on the second transaction, the one between the Supplier and the Reseller it may be easier to understand.

Tax is Due in the Ship-to State

Let’s back up a little and first understand some basic sales/use tax concepts. First of all, in almost every state, any item of TPP is subject to sales/use tax. A seller with nexus in a state must collect sales/use tax on sales of TPP into that state. They must collect the tax unless they collect an exemption certificate (like a Resale Certificate, for example) that is acceptable to the ship-to state.

So, if the Reseller directs the Supplier to ship product to a state where the Supplier already has nexus (by virtue of employees, a warehouse, sales reps, etc.), then the Supplier is required to either collect the use tax for the ship-to state or the Seller is required to obtain a certificate (from the Reseller) for the ship-to state.

Where the Reseller has nexus is irrelevant in this scenario. It matters only where the Supplier has an obligation to collect a sales or use tax. Obligations to collect tax are based on where the Supplier has nexus.

Since the Reseller is the Supplier’s customer, the Supplier must do one of two things. The Supplier must charge the Reseller sale/use tax based on the ship-to state’s rules and tax rates, or the Supplier can accept a certificate that is acceptable to the destination state in lieu of the sales tax. Which brings us to the next question.

Must Dropshippers (Resellers) Provide a Certificate for Every State Where They Have Customers?

The simple answer to this question is, yes, the Reseller must provide an acceptable certificate for every state to which items are shipped in order for the Reseller to avoid being charged tax by the Supplier. However that does not mean the Reseller is required to get registered in every state in order to issue an acceptable certificate. The Reseller need only to provide a certificate that is acceptable to ship-to the state in question. Many states will accept certificates from other states.

The good news is that while there are some states in which the Reseller may have to register in order to issue a certificate, which is acceptable to that state, most of the states do not require Resellers, without nexus in their state, to get registered. In these states, here is usually some other type of documentation which can be provided that will be acceptable without being required to register in the state in question. Here is a list of the types of documentation which may or may not be acceptable to a given state when you are not already registered in the Customer’s state:

1. Home state certificates

2. Consumer state certificates with no nexus statements.

3. Consumer state certificates with no home state number.

4. MTC multistate certificates with home state numbers.

5. SST multistate certificates with home state numbers.

6. Affidavits or statements of no nexus.

7. Pass through of a valid consumer certificate.

The key is to know which state will accept which documentation in your situation. There are roughly ten states where you may have to get registered, but in about 35 you will be able to use at least one of the seven documents above. I will cover some state specifics in my next post. In the meantime - if you have any specific questions please feel free to post a question or comment - or reach out to me directly.

Do you have questions about MULTI-STATE sales tax - or other state/local tax issues?

Michael welcomes inquiries from SalesTaxSupport.com users. Please call - or (ideally) if time allows, use the "Request a Consultation" link on this FIRM PROFILE page to submit your question and/or consultation request.

Other recent “Exemption Certificate Mgmt.” posts by Michael J. Fleming:

NOTE: All blog content, comments, and participation subject to disclaimer at bottom of page.

Comments

30 Responses to Dropshippers: Are Exemption Certificates Required For Every State?

  • Posted by Candice on May 5, 2017 10:10am:

    Hi Michael,
    Thank you for your blog.
    I saw that WA does not accept a home buyer's certificate, however, their site states that they accept a multi-state exemption certificate. What am I missing?
    Thanks!

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on May 30, 2017 1:12pm:

      Hi Candice,

      WA is a member of the Streamlined Sales and Use Tax Agreement or SSUTA. All full members of SSUTA accept home state numbers on the SSUTA multijurisdictonal certificate (SSUTA Form F0003). If you have any additional questions let me know.

  • Posted by Devon on November 8, 2016 10:01am:

    We are a Federal Government reseller who has products drop shipped from various manufacturers and wholesale distributors such as Dell. Our issue and question is that Dell is asking for Solvix, a New Jersey Corporation, to produce a resale exemption certificate to Dell so that they can remove the sales tax from our invoice to us for the cost of goods as a reseller. So, do you know which form I need to fill out? Also what else do I need to do? I'm mainly asking for the Oklahoma and Hawaii. Thank you so much for your time and I look forward to hearing back from you!

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on February 27, 2017 8:19am:

      Hi Devon,

      The resale certificate will vary depending on where the Dell is shipping the "goods". If we are talking about goods shipped to Hawaii, then the Hawaiian form G-17 should be used. This form is generally only valid if you are registered in HI and generally only drops the rate from 4% to .5%.

      In OK you can use the Streamlined Sales Tax Agreements multi-jurisdictional form F0003.

      If you have any additional questions let us know.

      Mike

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on February 27, 2017 8:18am:

      Hi Devon,

      The resale certificate will vary depending on where the Dell is shipping the "goods". If we are talking about goods shipped to Hawaii, then the Hawaiian form G-17 should be used. This form is generally only valid if you are registered in HI and generally only drops the rate from 4% to .5%.

      In OK you can use the Streamlined Sales Tax Agreements multi-jurisdictional form F0003.

      If you have any additional questions let us know.

      Mike

  • Posted by Shaun on June 20, 2016 11:08am:

    Hi - we are a reseller located in CA. We are buying from a vendor for a drop-shipment to AZ. Our vendor requires that we fill out the multi jurisdiction uniform sales & use tax exemption resale certificate. Do we also need to register with the state of AZ and get an exemption certificate from them?

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on February 27, 2017 8:21am:

      Hi Shaun, if you do not have nexus in AZ then you do not need to register in AZ. AZ is a fairly easy state to work with and will allow you to write in your CA permit number on the AZ line.

      Mike

  • Posted by Tamie on June 16, 2016 12:07pm:

    Hi Michael, we have an order that dropped from a CA Supplier to an AZ Customer. The CA Supplier is registered in AZ. We are an Oregon Reseller and are not registered in AZ. Oregon also does not have sales tax. CA Supplier wants us to pay the sales tax. The product was for resale. I was not able to find anything online that specifically addresses our situation. Can the CA Supplier charge us tax? If so, how do we pass it on to the customer? I talked with two tax specialists in the AZ Dept. of Revenue, one being a supervisor, and they do not seem versed on the subject. Do you know what AZ law says about tax on drop shipments from an out of state Reseller not registered in AZ and also what kind of exemption certificate is acceptable for AZ in this case? Thank you for your time.

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on November 14, 2016 1:22pm:

      Hi Tamie, We have see companies handle this in a multitude of ways. If you are registered in any other states you could provide that states registration number on the MTC multijurisdictional. certificate. Since AZ is not a state where you have to be registered to issue a certificate, you can also ask your vendor what they will accept. If they say nothing, then contact us and we can do a three way call with them, providing documentation that shows you do not have to be registered. For information on AZ dropshipments you may go to ARIZONA TRANSACTION PRIVILEGE TAX RULING TPR 95-13, ARIZONA TRANSACTION PRIVILEGE TAX RULING TPR 95-13, August 3 1995.

  • Posted by Tim on February 2, 2016 12:26pm:

    I work for a Group C NASA SEWP V contract holder. All of our sales are to Federal Government agencies via the NASA SEWP V contract. All of the products are H/W and S/W from IT vendors/MFGRS. We have a resale certificate from the state of California and buy from national wholesale distributors over 96% of the time. Should we be getting charged sales tax from the distributors and should we charge sales tax to the Federal Govt end users?

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on February 21, 2016 9:44am:

      Hi Tim,

      Government contractors face a whole host of additional issues, when it comes to certificates. As with all scenarios, the ship to location is important as to what you are required to do.

      In general, you can not tax the federal government, but who is paying you and how you are being paid will sometimes have an impact on what documentation you need to have for your records.

      Additionally, in some states a government contractor is considered the consumer of the products and is not eligible for a resale exemption.

      Or in a state like AZ, since the TPT is an obligation of the seller, the sales tax must still be paid to AZ only it comes out of the sellers pocket and not the governments.

      Certificate issues for government contractors can be very tricky. For those of you who need to walk through some of the basics or who have specific scenarios, we offer a 1/2 hour consultation for $195 and a full hour for $350. To schedule a consultation you may email Brock Morrison at: bmorrison@peisnerjohnson.com

  • Posted by Jennifer on January 25, 2016 1:01pm:

    We are plumbing contractor. We have a few customers that are exempt and provide us a Texas Sales and Use Tax Exemption Certification. Therefore, we do not charge these customer tax for the work performed.

    However, does this change our purchases for these particular jobs? Do we pay sales tax on the items purchased for the Tax Exempt property?
    Or if we hire a subcontractor to work for us, on the tax exempt job, do they charge us tax?

    Typically for our retail/commercial customers, if we charge sales tax on the invoice to our customer, we issue a resale certificate to our suppliers/subcontractors.

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. Flemingmikefleming on February 21, 2016 10:04am:

      Contractors face many hurdles when trying to compliant for sales/use tax purposes. Even if a contractors services are offered within a single state, the rules can become very complex.

      We suggest a consultation to go over specific issues, but here are some basics for the state of Texas.

      In general, if you are not collecting tax then you do not get to buy your materials tax exempt. Other answers will depend on the type of project and the type of exemption. If you are deemed to be the consumer in the project, then you could owe tax to the subcontractor.

      If you want to walk through some of the basics or have specific scenarios to discuss, we offer a 1/2 hour consultation for $195 and a full hour for $350. To schedule a consultation you may email Brock Morrison at: bmorrison@peisnerjohnson.com

  • Posted by sarah on June 19, 2015 4:55am:

    We are the manufacturer selling to distributors. We have collected Sales Tax Exemption Certs from our distributors. If we are drop shipping to an end use customer on behalf of the distributor, are we as the manufacturer required to secure an exemption cert from the end user as well? Or is the distributor responsible?

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on June 22, 2015 7:55am:

      Hi Sarah,
      As the seller you are required to collect a certificate from your customer in any state where you have nexus and are shipping product on their behalf.
      The certificate must be collected from your customer and it must be acceptable to the ship to state. You would not collect anything from the end user as you have no relationship or connection with them.
      In some instances if your customer does not have a certificate in the ship to state, than you must charge then the sales tax from the ship to state. In most states this will not be the case, however there are nine states where, depending on the situation, your customer must be registered with that state in order to give you a valid certificate. These states include CA, CT, FL, LA, MA, MD, MS, TN and the District of Columbia.
      In some instances your customer's customer may have an exemption that can be passed through, but in this case it is still the responsibility to to provide the certificate to you.
      Each state varies on what they will or will not accept.
      Let me know if I have answered your question.

  • Posted by What on May 25, 2015 4:17am:

    […] That said, Michael J. Fleming reported last October at SalesTaxSupport.com that things are changing. He reports that distributors and manufacturers are being audited based on improper paperwork and are getting hit with huge fines, so they are going back to retailers requiring exemption certificates from all possible ship-to states. If not, they are attempting to charge the sales tax back to the retailer. That’s a sticky situation because without a nexus, the retailer cannot charge that tax back to the customer unless they are registered to collect sales tax in that state even if they don’t have a nexus there. […]

  • Posted by Jacqueline on May 14, 2015 3:33am:

    I am fairly new to a Manufacturing Company working with sales tax exemption certificates for all states that impose sales tax. I have on my desk a document provided which is a breakdown of all the states and the effective lives of exemption and resale certificates dated 1998. I was wondering if there may be something out there providing this type of information that would be more current to verify there have not been changes or update the information where changes may have occurred?
    Example of info on my document:
    ILLINOIS:
    Exemption certificates are valid for 5 years. Resale certificates are valid for 3 years.
    INDIANA:
    Exemption and resale certificates are valid indefinetely.
    etc....of all the state applicable.
    Any suggestions you have that may direct me to get current information would be most helpful.
    Thank you kindly.

    • Posted by Author photo of Susan JaegerSusan Jaeger on May 15, 2015 2:11am:

      Jacqueline - In addition to the very helpful information provided in the response by Michael Fleming of Peisner Johnson & Company, you may also want to consider two other items:
      1) There is an older (but still pertinent) "Exemption Certificate Mgmt" post written by Silvia Aguirre ("THE List of Sales Tax Exemption Certificate Expiration Periods?") which also explains the challenge in creating such a list. See following link to view that post:
      http://www.salestaxsupport.com/blogs/sales-use-tax/sales-tax-exemption-certificate/list-of-sales-tax-exemption-certificate-expiration-periods/
      Additionally - you may want to bookmark our "Nexus & Overview" section which provides a helpful "sales tax" overview for each state - including requirements for exemption and resale certificates. In most cases expiration dates are not stated - but other helpful details are provided. This information is compiled and maintained by CCH/Wolters Kluwer - a leading tax publisher.
      http://www.salestaxsupport.com/sales-tax-information/states-sales-tax-by-state/CA-California/tax-nexus

      • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on May 25, 2015 5:08am:

        Hi Jacqueline,
        Everything you have said is true. In fact, in the states of CA, CT, DC, MA, MD, MS & TN you generally must be registered with the state, in order to issue a valid certificate. IN FL & LA, depending on the facts you may be in the same situation. If you can not collect a certificate that the state in question would deem acceptable or valid, than the sales tax should be charged and your customer may not generally collect the tax from their customer without being registered. Therefore the sales tax would end up coming out of your customers pocket.
        This is why many companies choose to get registered and collect sales tax in these 9 states, even when they don't have nexus, if they are making a material amount of sales into these states by drop shipping. Although their cost of compliance may be higher, it will always be lower than paying the tax out of their own pocket. Once they are registered, they can issue you a an exemption certificate and then collect and remit the tax from their customer.
        If their sales are not material, than many companies just bit the bullet and pay the tax. There are not many options, unless you as the manufacturer want to assume the risk for them and pay the taxes plus penalty and interest if you are audited. The problem is that since audits are done on a sample basis, even one missing or invalid certificate could lead to a larger assessment.
        The states don't make this easy by following the same rules and as I mentioned in an earlier response, I do not know of a free resource that lists everything all together. My suggestions are to subscribe to a research source or go to the states directly. Another option is to solicit a list from your colleagues or competitors, however this can be dangerous as you can never be sure they are doing it correctly. Lastly you may reach out to someone like us.
        If you would like to speak, my phone is 972-277-4820 and email is mfleming@peisnerjohnson.com

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on May 14, 2015 7:44am:

      Hi Jacqueline,
      I do not know of any public resource that consolidates this information in one place. There are paid for sources and the research materials we subscribe to contain such information. Absent having access to a state and local tax research resource, I would try the states or a google search. If you would like us to put something together for you, call or email me and we can talk about it. My phone is 972-277-4820 and email is mfleming@peisnerjohnson.com.
      I would like to add that as a best practice we suggest that companies update their certificates every 2-3 years, even the ones that don't expire. The reason being is that a lot can happen in 3 years. Companies change names, entity types, merge, consolidate, etc. All these are issues that can invalidate a certificate. So a certificate that was acceptable at one time may no longer be so as time goes on. The longer you wait to update, the greater the potential that you may have an issue in audit.
      This creates more work, but could save you from having problems down the road. Since most audits are done on a sample basis, even one bad certificate can have a major impact and result in a large assessment.

  • Posted by Dayla on May 13, 2015 5:07am:

    We currently hold a resellers permit in WA. We are acting as a wholesaler and selling pumps, controls, VFD and other irrigation related equipment to a dealer network throughout the US. We have a vendor who is asking for a tax exemption certificate for IL. I have a multi-state exemption certificate form from WA. However, IL is not listed as one of the member states. Will IL accept the multi-state exemption certificate or is there another form that needs to be completed for IL?

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on May 14, 2015 2:12am:

      Unfortunately they will not. Illinois is different from the other states in that they have a special registration that allows companies, without nexus in IL, to register so that they can issue resale certificates. It is a no strings attached registration. In other words you do not have to collect tax or file returns. The registration is just so that you can issue an IL resale certificate.
      Illinois will accept an IL certificate without this special registration number, if a letter stating the purchaser has no nexus is submitted along with it. However the state strongly suggests that sellers require the special registration, as any certificate without the number will be subject to additional scrutiny and verification by an auditor. It is for this reason many seller's do not accept a "no nexus" letter in IL.
      You should ask your vendor if they will accept the no nexus letter or any other alternative documentation. They are not required to but may if you ask.
      If you need to register, make sure you register for the resale number and not the retail number. The retail number requires that you collect and remit tax.
      To reiterate the resale number is what you want to register for and it does not require sales tax collection or return filing.
      If you need help registering you can call me at 972-277-4820.

  • Posted by Cathy on May 13, 2015 12:41am:

    We are the reseller for a customer who has a resale certificate in the State of New York. Our supplier is requesting a resale certificate for New York, and Ca,. Our customers have their resale numbers but as the reseller, we do not and our supplier wants to charge us sales tax. What form should we use

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on May 14, 2015 2:50am:

      Hi Cathy,
      Great questions. NY will only accept the NY certificate (form ST-120) and they do not allow "pass throughs" of customer certificates. However, there is good news. The NY certificate does not require that you be registered in NY. The certificate has two sections one for purchasers who have a NY state number and one for those who do not.
      You will want to leave section 1 blank and fill in section 2. Section 2 is the section for out of state sellers. Of course you should fill out the entire certificate, just leave section 1 blank.
      CA is a different story. They require that you use the CA certificate (BOE-230), but in order to use it you have to be registered. However if your customer is purchasing for resale or is exempt for any other reason, than you may "pass through" their certificate to your vendor.
      If you can not produce a "pass through" and you are not registered,than your vendor is required to charge you tax on the price to you plus 10%.
      Many companies who find themselves being charged sales tax in CA often will choose to voluntarily register in CA in order to protect their margins. Once you register in CA, you can issue the resale certificate to your vendor and you will be responsible for collecting and remitting the tax to CA. This may increase your compliance costs, however it is usually much cheaper than paying the tax out of your pocket each time.
      If you have any additional questions please feel free to call me at 972-277-4820.
      Mike

  • Posted by Tammy on April 29, 2015 7:43am:

    I found some 3rd party references saying that Arizona allows the use of another state's tax ID on their TPT Exemption Certificate. I even see a line on their TPT Exemption Certificate "Other Tax License Number". What I cannot find in writing from the State of Arizona is a statement that they do allow this.
    Are you familiar with anything that would confirm this?

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on May 14, 2015 2:59am:

      Hi Tammy,
      Here is an excerpt from ARIZONA TRANSACTION PRIVILEGE TAX RULING TPR 95-13, 95-13, August 3 1995. Please note the third bullet point.
      A.R.S. §42-1310.01.P.3. provides that selling at retail is a sale for any purpose other than for resale in the regular course of business. The burden of proving that a sale was not a sale at retail (a sale for resale) is on the seller unless the seller receives from the purchaser a certificate as described by A.R.S. §42-1328. The certificate must contain the following information:
      • The name and address of the purchaser.
      • A statement that the property was purchased for resale in the ordinary course of business.
      • The transaction privilege tax license number of the purchaser. If the purchaser has a tax license number from a state other than Arizona, that license number may be used on the certificate.
      • Certification that the person executing the certificate is authorized to do so on behalf of the purchaser.
      Other states' exemption certificates may be used provided all the requirements of A.R.S. §42-1328 are met. If the purchaser does not have a transaction privilege tax license number, the purchaser shall indicate the reason on the certificate.
      If you have any additional questions please let me know. You can call me at 972-277-4820.

  • Posted by Stacie on March 16, 2015 5:42am:

    Are you able to tell me documentation requirements for exempting drop shipments to the following states?
    AL
    CA
    CT
    DC
    FL
    GA
    IL
    IN
    MA
    MD
    MI
    NC
    NJ
    NY
    OH
    PA
    SC
    TN
    TX
    VA
    VT
    WA
    WI

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on March 18, 2015 5:40am:

      Hi Stacie,
      Not an easy task as most states can accept multiple types of documentation. Are you looking for something specific or are you looking for a report that details all the types of documentation each state will accept. If the latter. I suggest you contact me offline at 972-277-4820. If something specific I will try to answer online.
      Mike

  • Posted by Bonnie on January 28, 2015 4:07am:

    Hi..
    I was wondering if there was an expiration date on New Mexico and Wyoming states??? Also is there any type of list that would show what each state requires?
    Thanks for your help,
    Bonnie Camden

    • Posted by Author photo of Michael J. FlemingMichael J. Fleming on January 31, 2015 5:18am:

      Hi Bonnie,
      The New Mexico nontaxable transaction certificate or NTTC does not have a stated expiration date, It was eliminated in 2005. (NM Stat Ann Sec. 7-9-43) The one exception is for the Type 12 NTTC which is for the use of utilities consumed in the manufacturing process. This particular NTTC has a three year expiration, but in general NTTC’s do not have an expiration date.
      Wyoming is a member of the streamlined sales tax project (SSTP) and the SST certificates do not have expiration dates.
      However, as a best practice. we strongly suggest that companies update their certificates every three years even when there is not an expiration date. The reasoning is that a certificate is not something that can be collected and forgotten about. Certificates that may have been valid when first accepted may become invalid over time. Purchasers as well as sellers sometimes change names, entity types, tax id numbers, etc. due to mergers, acquisitions, divestments and a host of other reasons. When this information changes the certificates you have on file usually become invalid as of the date of the change.
      It can be a giant red flag, when the changes make it onto your invoices, and the certificates are not updated. This is why we suggest updating your certificates every three years as a best practice, so that you can catch these changes before they get too far down the road, creating potential exposure for you.
      If anyone would like to discuss best practices in more detail feel free to give me a call at 972-277-4820.
      Mike

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